I agree with Julian about the tools not being right.

There was a lot of talking in 2005, before YouTube was launched and then before it was obvious how it was going to take over the world, about tools for online video that would make it easy for the community to grow. I was a big fan of ANT (and then FireANT). It had its limitations, but it was the only tool I knew of that focused on the social aspect of the video, rather than the TV aspect, which is YouTube’s model (although that is gradually changing into something else).

I want the kind of content you’re talking about Clintus – personal, small documentaries about people’s lives. That shit blows my mind. I watch it even when I don’t have time to post myself. There is an audience, but it feels dislocated. Watching normal TV while posting to Twitter feels more social.

I like 12seconds a lot, but I think 12 seconds is too short. Their idea of constraints is good, but the constraint is too tight, as though Twitter only gave you 50 characters – the difference between 3 short sentences and 1.

What kind of tool should we make for people who want to make and watch this kind of material? It’s not YouTube, that’s not what YouTube was ever for. It’s not blip either, I don’t think, or Vimeo, as useful as they are for hosting video. Nor is it Miro – that’s a great video player, but like blip, it’s all about watching “shows”, and that’s not what I’m looking for.

It’s NOT TV!

So I replied with an adhoc idea that could be the solution. Here is my comment:

just a thought i had even if not totally practical.

youtube + gmail

disable youtube comments.
disable video comments
disable ratings
unlist video
allow embedding and syndication

add the youtube link in your email message. the youtube player will be added/embedded as a media attachment after it is sent.

use a google group or not.

if not looking for an audience outside of those who are members of the list/group, then i am hard pressed to see why this approach would not work

@sull

Dee replied:

@sull

I like the idea a lot, but it’s important to me that videos be easily findable. I guess the group would be easy to find, so you could join in, but not really on one-video basis.

Interesting, thanks.

And my response:

indeed, that is important to most. and this can also be accomplished. for example, the RSS/ATOM feed from a google group can be parsed on a page or on many pages by multiple people…. and that would be indexable by search engines. also, a google group can be open to public for reading but not posting and that is also indexable. and of course each user can choose to embed thei videos on their own blog/site as they normally would. i dont think findability would be limited by creating this alternate more intimate community in conjunction with the standard practices of online video publishing.

Dee again replied:

yes, you’ve convinced me. It’s a great idea. In many ways (spam notwithstanding) e-mail is still the killer social media. If I want to make certain I don’t miss something I have it arrive in my inbox.

and on the Videoblogging yahoo Group Thread:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/message/78082

As I said beyond, I think this is a super idea. The more I think about
it, the more I like it. It perfectly answers elbows’s requirement of

“If you want intimacy and certain people creating certain sorts of
video, you
just have to connect with those people, get a little momentum going, and
make a
space which is sheltered enough to let the intimacy flourish.”

> i’ve babbled enought for now.

yeah, go and make your mailing list

I wanted to log this here because it is an interesting discussion – “The Video Blogger is Dead” so check the links I posted here if interested in more context. And the idea I propose, though certainly imperfect, does seem to make sense to me (and Dee and does it show us that the Internet’s ‘original’ technology (email) still serves us best? Sure, I am talking about mixing the old with the new here… and it would not be as fun if the videos were not embedded in the messages as Gmail now does with all youtube links found in the message (by default, no labs plugin needed). But I predict that many email services and client software will catch on (some have already) and certain urls will initiate rich content inside the message interface. So mailing lists, which imo are very intimate especially in comparison to broadcasting networks like Twitter, can be a smart way to have a video sharing community without all the noise and dependency on companies trying to monetize you in every and any way that they can. I know this is not totally pure of that… afterall Youtube embeds can contain ads and Gmail has textual ads. But hey… its a means to an end. Youtube/Gmail/Google will be around forever unlike say… some random person who puts up a forum on their site where you can embed video and then a year later, they decide not to renew the domain or pay for hosting or in general screw things up and the thing crashes too often etc etc. Step up from that are the new tiny startups who wither fail or get aquired and shut down or just start to suck. Email is what it is. It is decentralized. It is pervasive. It is near real-time. And you can output it all as feeds for the web if you wanted to. It is inevitable that media handling, both attachments and inline media links, in web-based and client-based apps will evolve to provide users with the experience they deserve in these modern times that inundate us with rich content. So lets give email video sharing a try. Get a Gmail account if you dont already. I know Facebook is already developing this type of stuff too. Chime in with thoughts and info on other services/products that can handle media in email messages.

Thanks.

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So this is interesting –

http://appinventor.googlelabs.com/about/

http://www.appinventor.org/

No, this will not reduce the need for Android Developers. Yes, this will allow for students, hobbyists and hackers to have fun and learn by creating real working apps for their own Android phone and share it with others too. They may even want or need to go further and delve into writing code too.

I think the time is ripe for a new WYSIWYG Visual Authoring Tool focused on the plethora of Android Devices that are on the market and will become even more pervasive in the coming months. We’ll even see normal computers running Android and expect to hear about Android running on just about everything you can think of. It’s great to see AppInventor being made available to more people now (it’s been developed for ~a year and used at select Universities).

I’ve been involved in discussions about Digital/Transmedia Storytelling and often we talk about HTML5 or the latest (touch screen) mobile devices and how to author more immersive and interactive works that go beyond “flat media” like the simplified default media playback experience that seems forced upon users. AppInventor is probably going to be leveraged as a powerful tool for content creators who have been discouraged by discovering the rigidness of actual application development for Android and Apple. Content creators want smoth authoring tools that are visual and logical without all the hassle. This is exciting news for many who have been eager to create for these new devices. The barrier to entry just dropped significantly. So it seems.

Developing for the mobile web is something I encourage. But that comes with its own set of problems too and it’s not a walk in the park. Ideally, AppInventor would handle both web(html5) and native app export with the proper compromises handled during and after development of the app. This would allow for cross-platform aware deployment. I’d also like to see a WebView Component so the app can wrap in a web page or full site.

I read much of the documentation tonight and though their are some missing pieces that will be missed initally and cause frustrating limitations or at least additional effort to accomplish some goals… I do think that it is fairly comprehensive and most of the bases are covered. As far as I can tell, you can build a sort of FourSquare or Loopt GeoLocation service (with geofencing func), A twitter client, media player, basic “video games” or apps with SMS and other communication utilities integrated (i.e. phone calls, email) and realtime notifications. In fact, when you look at all the built-in functionality and the forthcoming enahncements, it becomes easy to imagine the realization of many many ideas that can come to fruition quite quickly.

Then again, what to do about the spam and more innocent but still crap apps? Let them bloom! Who cares. Most of them will never invade our lives and not be submitted to app markets. For those that do end up in the Android market or other 3rd party app stores… let the reviews do the talking (or lack thereof) and expect Google to fix things up so that what bubbles up wont be the spam and crap apps that have been somewhat of a problem. Their is always going to be a fine line and I do prefer Google’s more hand-off approach to Apple’s elite authoritarian approach. Their needs to be a smart middle ground. But that my friends sounds like another blog post for another day.

So what do others think? I admittedly have not read too many articles (too bust reading the actual documentation). But from scanning, it seems like the consensus is positive but somewhat cautious too. It depends on what angle they approached this at. Since I love and respect Dave Winer, I did catch his post. Totally see his point in referencing the past. And maybe somewhere out there he there were some hyped up articles about AppInventor that made bullshit claims about the end of Android developers and 5 year olds building the next great app etc… Whatever. For those that matter, we know the deal. Dave threw some cold water on any sensationalists. I’m sure he will write again about AppInventor too. For what it’s worth, here is a more positive toned comment I had added over on his blog post:

http://scripting.com/stories/2010/07/12/anEnduserAppDevelopmentToo.html

I think with this type of stuff, you need to think about apps with some hierarchy of complexity. Sure, some apps can never be properly built with drag&drop. But many apps can be built with a predefined subset of functionality, especially when it is for a specific OS for smaller screened devices (Android Phones).

Also, it is 2010. We should expect to have simple tools to do some cool shit on todays popular mobile devices in a native way (not just the mobile web). Their comes a time when what was once laughable (your examples) needs to become a reality. Advancements in tech result in these types of mini-revolutions. Consumers usually are the ones that benefit but when creators can benefit too… it gets interesting and potentially changes everything. Spam notwithstanding, empowering creators (not just app creators but content creators) to efficiently get out their ideas without the clunky workflows, tools and processes associated with native languages and confusing SDKs and IDEs…. it can be remarkable. Think of the content creators too

So why is is more plausible today to have a so-called App Inventor app?

One is the fact that the Internet has evolved and a plethora of simple APIs exist so data in/out is fundamental to how the masses consume and create “data”. Hooking the new breed of mobile computers to this vast machine is essential, obvious and non-complicated. To the point that Drag&Drop GUI can be used to do CRUD and beyond.

Another reason is the small screen and standard set of device hooks that are most commonly used for most types of apps (Not related to 3D Video Games etc). In other words, their is only so much that a Drag&Drop GUI needs to provide to the author in order to empower them to create variations of applications and rich storytelling experiences (not just a video, audio, image but a more immersive navigation for example).

Another thought is something you have talked a lot about Dave. The loosely connected concept…. with focus on RSS + Social Status Clients. Imagine their being several if not hundreds of variations of these types of clients for your Android device that can connect to each other (p2p), suck in RSS feeds, twitter, facebook etc and imagine that if you dont like the apps avilable, you can make your own version of it and connect it to the network. Maybe eventually, that will be possible with ease

Sull

For me, I look forward to playing with AppInventor. I’ve taken the time to learn the process involved for developing on Android and though it is not rocket science by a long shot, it is clunky and not optimal for most people who are not used to the intricacies and annoyances of platform development and the associated IDEs, SDKs and WTFs. I welcome a more visually fun way to do stuff, as long as it works well enough. Hope to try it out soon.

Sull

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2. Gmail, Google Groups and Youtube = Intimate Video Sharing Community?
3. Time to install Titanium and develop som…

it should be obvious why 140 is the limit but the real question is why is it STILL the limit for ALL tweets? A magority of twitter users are using computers and either the website or a client app to tweet…. or if a mobile device, more and more are using phones with data plans that are able to do email and transfer files and browse the web etc etc. Within 2 years, most people with have “smart phones” and SMS will not be used for social messaging. Though SMS will always have a place and be useful, it certainly is not and will not be the sole technology for social messaging. That time has come and passed.

So though Winer may have phrased things awkwardly, the question is valid. Why limit people to 140 characters today? Why not have a logical interface that once 140 characters is reached, a little note appears that sais the message is no longer SMS compatible, do you want to continue? That’s literally all that is needed to appease all users. Most dont know what SMS is or care about it when they are using Twitter. It is 2010, not 2006.

With that said, maybe their still is some intrinsic value in the limitation. For a while I enjoyed it myself. Of late, the novelty has worn off. When i have more to say, i dont want to feel like i am nosiy or spammy by having several successive tweets to finish my thinking. I need to go long sometimes. Why can’t i just do it in one post using just Twitter? I think the time has come to examine the limitation and I think Twitter will eventually follow Facebook and Buzz etc by allowing larger posts and having SMS compatible posts as an optional feature that is seamlessly integrated into the user experience.

@sull

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1. A Social Network Comprised Entirely of Conversations?
2. RSS, Twitter, People, Power And The Negligent Tech Bloggers
3. RSS isn’t Dead… My comment

http://www.readwriteweb.com/enterprise/2009/09/rss-isnt-dead-just-ask-executives.php#comments

Their are a few ways to frame and respond to the tabloid-like headline “RSS is Dead”.

One is to directly compare RSS with Twitter. This is a mistake unless you clearly point out that what you are actually comparing is Reader/Aggregator software, the differences between a centralized and de-centralized messaging/headline/link sharing system and the mechanisms of efficient delivery of this data to subscribers or general content consumers.

The more accurate approach is to compare software that consumes content…. whether that be content from social networks like Twitter or Facebook or from Blogs and Websites or even for media like video and audio (poscasts). RSS is NOT software. Google Reader is. My Twitter stream is NOT software. Tweetie is. Whether a desktop application or a website wrapper… a UI for managing data/content and how efficient that software… which methods it uses…. is the real debate. Push/Streaming and Pull/Polling and App2App Notification protocols are at the heart of the issue.

One of the benefits of a centralized system like twitter is its built-in ability to provide more immediacy to users once new content is posted and available in their stream. The storage, delivery and notification system is cohesive. Obviously, the synaptics of the platform are going to be more coalescent and efficient in data handling. Though the Open Web (which includes search engines like google and bing) will better compete now that an entity like twitter has brought this issue of massive rapid micro-messaging (and link sharing) to the forefront.

You also have an enormous amount of people participating, doing the work of an army of ants…. propagating headlines, links and short messages. Mixed in with that you have your soundbyte culture and truly authentic interesting conversations.

The blogosphere also is involved in this activity with trackbacks/pingbacks/comments/blogrolls/bookmarks and of course the blog posts themselves that can contain several links within the article. In a way, links are the currency of the web. But the difference is the barrier to entry. Even though setting up a blog is easy today, it’s also about the avoiding… the void. joining a built-in community of people, for many, is more fun than being the lone blogger out there on the wild web. So, several blogging services have focused on this to make it more appealing. And their is a bit of momentum returning to blogging. But still, everyday people DO like the AOLesque Facebook and the Twitter phenomena snuck up on everyone as a cultural realization that bursts of messages are useful, easy and fun.

Twitter started out as a mostly mobile-centric app for self-status updates but has evolved into emulating RSS headline and links, albeit the proper headlines are too often replaced with useless comments. Not to mention the link itself is almost always hidden by a short url so you go in blind. That and a total lack of associated metadata… In a way it becomes the Poor Man’s RSS. But it’s faster. You give up some signal, and you get fast noise. If you are well trained, lucky, bored or just OCD about info consumption…. then you can pick out the gems. How often does it truly matter to a normal user if they hear about something before others? It’s a rare situation. And if it’s your business to know the news and monitor the pulse of the internet, then you you likely have a formula that crosses many tools, services and methods to help you achieve an advantage for “breaking stories”. More power to you.

If you were to compare just the data alone, RSS is no worse as it provides headlines and links… and can be better because it also provides rich metadata and even the entire contents of a content item. RSS is data/content. Twitter is data/content bundled with a social wrapper controlled by a single company. It should be getting more clear now why you cannot simply compare the two without more in depth analysis and explanation… We can do without the glossy tabloid style headlines. We have enough of that everywhere else. It would be great if tech can stay clear of such antics and worry less about page views and tech gossip and grow up.

The de-centralized open web syndication can and will keep up with the speed of twitter because the underlying tech does not care whether data is from a twitter stream (which generates RSS itself) or if that data is in a blog or if that data only exists as an RSS document. It DOES NOT MATTER. Most Twitter clients pull in content by polling the twitter API. That is not different than Email or RSS Readers. But its not efficient. So Push Email and Push RSS/Atom and Push anything else is preferred from a technical perspective and exciting from a users perspective. Excitement does not equate to a need. But it’s an advancement, one that was accelerated due to the popularity of Twitter and it’s delivery speed. And advancements in consumer tech are good.

Yes, real-time data is not new. But the notion to have this effect for anyone on the Internet is powerful. But Twitter alone is not the story. Twitter was a spark to shift focus on consumer services that can offer massive rapid content sharing. It’s wrong for Twitter to think that they can always be at the core of this future. They can be part of it… maybe a large part… but the Open Web will balance this and that is where RSS/Atom comes back into focus. And that should matter more to some tech writers who gloss over the big picture and use trite headlines and concepts to lead into a rash article. But hey, they open the door for others to clean the mess by blogging more in-depth perspectives.

So as we soon see more demonstrations of faster RSS…. at least as fast as you’de expect your Email to arrive… The uniquity that Twitter held will continue to dissipate. It will be just another big social network. People may tire of it. People may evolve as most of this becomes normal and ask themselves – why am i using this service when i can do the same thing on my own website or via email or some other cooler service that has better features etc etc. That’s right. Features. At some point, Twitter will need to care about features to stay relavent because everything else is quickly becoming normalized. Choosing between Twitter and Facebook will seem strange. Especially as the content is cross-posted, which is another issue that is ongoing.

It’s also good to keep in mind other emerging technologies like Google Wave and how that may impact our connected digital culture.
I have not been too impressed with Wave so far but I admittedly have not give it a fair chance yet. I see its potential.

And since I have mentioned Email a few times here…. It’s also good to think about the future of email. We already have Push Email on mobile devices which in and of itself is as fast as a centralized Twitter. But email is de-centralized. So what happens when we put together Mailing Lists with Push Email? I think we’ll find out

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I don’t know if those who have proclaimed that RSS is… you know.. the D word… actually believe it to the core or if they just wanted to push buttons with tongue in cheek.
Or if they just irresponsibly use “RSS” as an umbrella term for labeling the opposition to the more, faster, smarter, better hype that is going on related to real-time web/push-button web etc. It’s like so many other things where people feel the need to have a black&white issue to pound on. The notion that something must fall for something else to rise.
Childish, really.

Here are some perspectives…

Many people were not ready for adding RSS Readers to live along-side with their “Email”. With the exception of joining mailing lists, a typical person does nto concern themselves with the idea of subscribing in order to get content. And despite the ease in which this subscribing process is done (auto-discovery, orange buttons, copy/paste a url, pre-populating feeds, one-click subscribe options in the software etc etc), these few extra steps and the fact that their is another interface for managing an “inbox” deterred many from full adopting content syndication via RSS. Email software that incorporated an RSS Reader (ie. Apple’s mail.app) helps but it’s still added complexity.
Many people just find it simpler to rely on a few webpages (which prob use RSS).

But RSS is more than this idea of Reader software.

RSS made it easy to let one website add content from another website. So it’s usefulness was not solely for consumption by individual users but also to spread content across the web.

RSS is used by search engines for improved content discovery and therefor, improved SEO. The new breed of search engines heavily use RSS feeds to parse rich multimedia content and output to a users search results. That was some of the motivation behind new namespaces such as “Media RSS” driven by Yahoo! in 2004. And anyone adept in Search Engine Optimization knows that submitting a Media RSS feed to search engines is a standard and crucial step. After all, it’s well-formed machine-readable content.

Media RSS also bleeds into the world of audio and video syndication/agregation (commonly referred to as podcasting). Take a look at the data inside my blip.tv RSS feed: http://sull.blip.tv/rss

That’s some rich metadata.

Does twitter offer that? No and it was never intended to. But twitter will evolve and its feasible that it will eventually resemble RSS more as it becomes realized that metadata and machine-readable formats are fundamental requirements that add value.

RSS is also commonly used to run multimedia presentation software such as Flash audio and video players. Adobe’s own AMP (Adobe Media Player) uses RSS and other XML flavors to load playlists, social connections, advertising, branding and UI elements. Their are other examples of RSS being in the mix for these types of uses as well.

RSS is often used as part of web application APIs. One service can make use of another service’s RSS feed and include the content and important links or widgets into it’s interface. These web service mashups thrive and are part of the web culture today. RSS is not the only format used but it is a common and simple format to allow for easy cross-domain content sharing.

RSS is also used for alerts, notifications, data backups, filesharing and short messaging.

RSS is so pervasive that many people don’t see it or know its part of whatever it is that they are looking at. And that’s the way it should be for most people.

So where is the failure, exactly? Mostly, you could blame software for aggregating RSS feeds. It was setup to mimic email. That made sense since you did not want to create an nusual experience for people to consume this content. The email experience is the most common of all. But that also allows for the vulnerability of feeling overwhelmed with “unread items” and managing all the content. So, more “view modes” are important…. especially the “river of news” mode that let’s you casually skim headlines. There are other designs that work too. Inevitably, a user has unique preferences and they should be allowed to easily create those view modes that work for them.

Google Reader has evolved a lot this year. Though I still think it’s a clunky bloated confusing experience… it is at least more interesting to me. I can see it continuing to evolve to the point where it becomes more inline as a direct competitor to Facebook. But they need a new UI or like I said, multiple view modes.

Even with Google Reader’s shortcomings and attributing those to the whole RSS is …. you know… the D word…. it’s foolish, it’s rhetoric. it’s getting drunk on the real-time buzz which is like… the new drug of choice.

So enough of this. If their is a concern about the image of RSS (very few of us geeks would really care), then just post intelligent articles mentioning RSS where applicable so people learn an understand it more. I don’t think we need to grab hold of the drama headlining of this is dead that is dead this is the future and that is old news etc etc.
Stuff like RSS is not Fashion. It’s cold hard tech.
This debate is a fabrication based on personalities who happen to have reach and some could argue… influence.

Once a Faster RSS is demonstrated (rssCloud, pubsubhubbub etc), everthing else will be moot, anyway.

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3. conversations in the cloud

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/the_real-time_web_a_primer_part_2.php

In particular, this paragraph:

For those prone to theorize, there are many fascinating questions to ponder. For example, the uncertainty principles states that the position and velocity of an atomic particle becomes less certain as that of another becomes more certain. If the analogy holds true, then does the veracity or truthfulness of news become less certain as the velocity of interest becomes more measurable. Likewise, what effects will the integration of the real-time stream have on the outcome of events, and how can conditions be influenced to ensure specific outcomes.

I recalled a few somewhat related comments I had made on friendfeed some time ago. So i’m collecting those and posting them here (again). This is helpful to me at least. And hopefully interesting to a few out there for good measure

Tom Foremski
The Problem With The Real-Time Web – No Google Juice

http://ff.im/5Fu7S

http://www.siliconvalleywatcher.com/mt/archives/2009/07/the_problem_wit.php

My comments:

tom’s post points out the obvious. “You’ve got to do both. If you abandon your static web presence for your real-time activities you will find it harder to build your overall social media capital”. of course a single micro-message is not *typically* going to have any weight as it’s often just a pointer to the real content value. the largest percentage of the so-called real-time messaging going on today are links with a bit of context and/or opinion. it’s a medium to connect more people with more content. this broadcast medium itself is secondary as it pertains to actual content. so yeah, their is a lack of google juice but it’s not nec a problem. unless we are talking about aesthetically pleasing tweets of the poetic variety

i also think real-time is a feature of the larger evolving digital infosphere. in a way, realtime is like rapid failure…. meaning… the speed and volume of the data flow to analyze and grade and filter and stock… the greater the value realtime offers to intelligent systems (ie. google). slower data flow translates to a slower realization of what content is not only generally good but also what is accurate, what is Legitimately trending and what is Actually being requested by millions of user search queries. Realtime Find is more important than Realtime Search.

The other day, @bitlynow gave me a link about someone who died. my first thought was… hey it’s bitly, they are good at what they are doing so i gave the tweet artificial value by reposting it only to realize moments later that the link and story were part of a hoax and possibly part of a worm. perfect example of why faster realtime data flow and analysis are critical to avoiding bad data from propagating.

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